So you want to be an editor?

[PDKL45]

So I was a hagwon guy for way too long, but they were actually kind of honest with their dishonesty, and by being "flexible," I mean I scammed them and was scammed by them in return, I had a fairly good life. It all came to a head when they concluded a Machiavellian deal with a "close friend" of mine, though. I was totally off to Japan/Hong Kong to do the same old thing and fuck him and his scheming Korean wife. (They ultimately got the worst of it all, though).

Then I had a morning -- 30 years old, dancing the Hokey Pokey with 6 year old kindergarten students -- and I decided the same old thing just wasn't for me. I wanted to stay in Korea, but didn't want the last 4 years of hagwon heaven/hell to repeat themselves. I applied for an editorial position...

I was lucky in many ways in retrospect. Korea has changed since then, but I got a face-to-face interview even after a disastrous phone interview and not a single writing sample. (That may have actually started the new requirement for prospective employees to actually submit writing samples before they were hired). Still, I am ever grateful that I started out poorly and grew into the position and its requirements.

I was recently asked for advice on securing an editorial position after a hagwon position and I honestly believe you have to pay your Korean dues before getting one of these editing jobs, even if it's just a year or two in a kiddie hagwon. You gotta learn the ropes first.

The following is an edited version of the email I replied with.

1. Try to make a range of writing samples for various levels and for various purposes. Go out and find a TOEIC/TOEFL/TEPS book and study the passage writing styles and question types. The actual passage is relatively unimportant in the long run, it's the questions and how you select and phrase them them that are actually relevant.

2. Never steal content from the internet to pass of as your own, it's too easily detected. Trust me, it will be checked. We once advertised an editorial position on a popular Korean ESL website. A total of three -- or was it four? -- people tried to pass of cut and pasted material from the internet as their own. The hilarious thing was that we all agreed that the first guy was a terrible writer and we'd never give him a job before we even knew he was a plagiarist. Dickhead had copied and pasted some really poor copy from some obscure website that was REALLY badly written.

3. Brush up on your technical knowledge of English grammar and punctuation. For example, look at any internet message board and look at all the people who mistake "your" for "you're." Also, learn about proofreading marks, the correct use of semi colons, capitalization, Italicization, etc. In interviews you will be tested on your proofreading ability, it's a major part of your job in any editing position in Korea.

4. Present well in interviews and be prepared for them. It is easy to get a hagwon job without interviewing for it -- my introduction to my first Korean employer by my one and only ever recruiter was a darkly comic non-interview (I have blue eyes and blondish hair) -- but you'll need to present well and never get stuck on a question in an interview for an editing position. Research common interview questions on the internet, there's lots of help to be found there. Also, as people have said before, leave the hiking boots at home and wear smart clothing, a suit/nice skirt suit and decent shoes.

5. In interviews you also need to indicate that you can get along with Koreans in a professional workplace. This may seem to be a minor point, but trust me, it's a big thing in a non-teaching setting. You don't need to go so far as to eat a handful of those evil little green chilies from a Gam Ja Tang restaurant in front of them -- although in some cases it might help -- but you do need to demonstrate that you're comfortable working with Koreans and dealing with Korean corporate life. The advertised working hours are not always what are actually expected...

6. Don't give up. It's easy to be discouraged, but if you keep trying you'll eventually find something.

Good Luck!

[coffeeboss]

Yeah, and what happens if you've come from teaching English at a school where they don't want you to get any kind of job after you've finished with them,won't give you a written or phone reference? You could say the fact that your school has renewed you shows you can get on with Koreans but won't it all fall apart when the Han vindictiveness comes out because you left your old school?

About the other stuff, good of you to share those tips. But I think that now as soon as the person who sees the job apps coming in spots that you're on an E-2 visa, you'll have jackshit chance of getting an interview. They want somebody on an E-7 so they don't have to pay out money for you to change your visa type etc, and the few editing jobs I've seen advertised all want people on the F visas. The longer I'm in Korea, the more people I meet that actually have some good stuff on their resume, blasting the cliche of inexperienced only English teachers here out of the water. But I bet they can't get out of teaching because they don't have the things I talked about and they don't have the contacts to land this sort of job.

[mightymigeumman]

I currently hold an editorial job here in Bundang. I hadn't previously worked in Korea, but I have 2 years ESL experience in Turkey, 2 years teaching university-level composition in USA, and a BA and MA in English Literature. Though I'm new to this field here, if you have any questions I'd be more than happy to help. Not sure if you mean for a reply to this thread but I was reading so.......

[Box_of_Rain]

Originally Posted by coffeeboss

Yeah, and what happens if you've come from teaching English at a school where they don't want you to get any kind of job after you've finished with them,won't give you a written or phone reference? You could say the fact that your school has renewed you shows you can get on with Koreans but won't it all fall apart when the Han vindictiveness comes out because you left your old school?

I can't tell if you are asking a real question (or a rhetorical one), but if you are really interested in a non-teaching job all you have to do is network, seek out some young Koreans with decent jobs, and use these acquaintances as your references rather than having to list a shyster ex-boss

It would take time of course...but so many jobs fall under the "not what you know, it's who you know" category. Meet as many people as possible and keep in touch with the ones who would make good references or are working in your desired field. If you want to stay here for awhile; otherwise, ignore this!

[Helen]

What are the chances of someone with editing experience from another country landing a job?

[PDKL45]

Yeah, and what happens if you've come from teaching English at a school where they don't want you to get any kind of job after you've finished with them,won't give you a written or phone reference? You could say the fact that your school has renewed you shows you can get on with Koreans but won't it all fall apart when the Han vindictiveness comes out because you left your old school?

You make a good point, but many people in the industry really don't care about your teaching experience so much. They know what hagwons are like. Many of them have worked for puffed up little dictators as well.

The thing that will land you an editing job, over the best reference in the world, is editing skills. Writing samples, knowledge of popular Korean tests, their question types and target audience count for a lot.

Build a solid portfolio of writing samples--paying particular attention to their questions and activities--and learn about the tests.

About the other stuff, good of you to share those tips.

No problems, I was trying to help those in the same situation I found myself in a few years ago.

But I think that now as soon as the person who sees the job apps coming in spots that you're on an E-2 visa, you'll have jackshit chance of getting an interview. They want somebody on an E-7 so they don't have to pay out money for you to change your visa type etc, and the few editing jobs I've seen advertised all want people on the F visas.

That is partially why I said "I was lucky in many ways in retrospect. Korea has changed since then..." in my original post. Still, I was E-2 and the company treated me really well with respect to getting a new visa. That was also before the new E-7 regulations came into play, but I wouldn't abandon all hope.

You are right, though, in that it's not a hagwon job, so they can afford to be more selective with applicants. It's just like an office job at "home" for me, really, in that I paid all of the expenses for my own house, so I am fairly independent in terms of housing, yet I pay for it all myself. Many editing jobs also cannot afford to employ someone on a full time basis as well, and they just don't have the volume of work that would necessitate it.

Still, there was an awesome full time Kyobo book center job going a while ago, and there was a hackers TOEFL one as well. They were really hard interviews from what I heard at the time, and it is there that people were hired based on their initial writing samples, their demonstrated proofreading ability and the sample passages with questions they produced during the interview process. Those jobs were taking all comers as well.

I paid for my flight to Japan to change my visa over for my current position because I wanted it, and I am sure the successful applicants for those jobs did as well. I also used holiday days for the visa run. So yeah, the companies totally avoid the expenses (except for that first job I had), but they can afford to. They aren't desperate for any old westerner in the classroom to keep the parents happy and shelling out the Sae Jeongs.

The longer I'm in Korea, the more people I meet that actually have some good stuff on their resume, blasting the cliche of inexperienced only English teachers here out of the water.

Sure, I have met some very interesting people here, as well as some entertaining liars.

But I bet they can't get out of teaching because they don't have the things I talked about and they don't have the contacts to land this sort of job.

I disagree entirely. If they have the ability to make English get up and beg, or just plain old persistence, they can eventually find something. Even if you do have contacts--and I have seen many people recommended for positions based on personal contacts--you will still face a grilling as well as proofreading tests and writing samples. I have personally recommended hagwon teachers for interviews based solely on their writing ability. We never even called their references because we were only really looking at how well they could use their material to frame questions.

[PDKL45]

Originally Posted by Helen

What are the chances of someone with editing experience from another country landing a job?

Fairly good if you are in Korea, have all of the things I mention in the post above and present well in interviews. Many employers like to see Korean experience, though, as you are working in a professional workplace rather than with small children.

[PDKL45]

There's an opening for a writing/editing position beginning in August if anyone's interested.

Benefits are basically the same as you get in a hagwon, but the pay is better.

PM me if you're interested.

Please note: you'll need writing samples, etc. See previous posts above.

Update:

The job is described as: "Writing TEPS, elementary/middle school listening and reading passages and editing/proofreading everything under the sun."

[arachi]

Ooooh...tempting. Very, very, very tempting.

[PDKL45]

Position gone as of 2010-07-30.